Jack Chick DCC

[fathead]

I'd like to see a DCC based on Jack Chick's "Dark Dungeon" pamphlet. If you could stat out Blackleaf, that would be great!

[GnomeBoy]

What a slice of nostalgia that is, in a strange sort of way...

I haven't read that pamphlet for years, probably the last time was 15 or more years ago in a game store in Berkeley, where they had a tattered photocopy taped up on the side of the shelving that held the D&D books.

Sadly, back in the Seventies when occult covens were recruiting through D&D games, my cleric only made it to 7th level...

Here's a link to the pamphlet online, for those interested: http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0046/0046_01.asp

Somewhere out there in the net, is an essay in a similar vein, where the author tries to show how twisted AD&D is by radically misquoting it. My favorite bit that I can remember is how character creation involves generating your stats, abilities and diseases. And yet he goes on to say nothing about the prostitute encounter table in the back of the DMG.

...where was GG's head at that day?

[fathead]

My first introduction to the pamphlet was a GenCon, where you had to run the gauntlet of "Dark Dungeon" weilding followers.

I REALLY wish that I had saved my copy.

Whenever the call for GenCon celebrity guests goes out, I keep trying for Jack Chick. I'd get him to sign my DMG.

[Mike_Ferguson]

...where was GG's head at that day?

I seem to remember reading that when D&D was originally conceived, Gygax and company envisioned the 'typical gamer' as being someone like themselves at the time - namely, probably a guy in his 20s or 30s. They didn't really think that kids in their early teens (or younger) would remotely be interested in the game.

That's supposedly why the earliest editions of the game have stuff like demons, devils, and a prostitute encounter table - that's stuff straight out of the stories of Robert E. Howard or Fritz Leiber. ("Fafhrd wants to go out wenching again? Okay ....")

There wasn't any really any thought of kids playing these games - or how the parents of these kids would react to such things.

[Argamae]

Man, this "pamphlet" was more scaring to me than any game session played with ANY Roleplaying game!

Even if "Dark Dungeon" was meant as an ironic stab towards fanatical fundamentalists (which, sadly, I think it was NOT), christians who honestly believe that load of crap scare the heck out of me!

Notice how they push the wicca religion down the same road as satanism and devil-worship! Apart from the fact that true "witches" do not have a religion (and certainly don't worship satan) the book-burning "salvation" at the end makes me truly mad!
In Germany the Nazi Party had this attitude towards books not conforming to their political system some 65 years ago. That was when they burned all writings, texts and books from jewish, left-wing or other so-called "non-aryan" origin. And as history solemnly shows: it didn't set anybody free. And it certainly was not the beginning of a salvation, either.

So, in the end this "Dark Dungeon" strip is portraying the christian faith in a similar way as the alleged "satanic, manipulating games" they warn against. If this is not irony then what is?

By the way... that dark-haired "Dungeon Mistress" sure looks a lot like my girl-friend... hm.

[GnomeBoy]

... Gygax and company envisioned the 'typical gamer' as being someone like themselves at the time - namely, probably a guy in his 20s or 30s. ...

Well, that's true, and I'd say I knew that, but have you looked at the encounter table in question lately?

I must confess a lack of firsthand knowledge of that 'world', but the difference between an encounter with a 'trollop' and a 'slattern' must be splitting hairs, surely. At the very least, that must be true in a gaming context....

And yet, there they are.

(NB, I'm going from memory here, having stumbled onto the chart again in the last two or three years and being once-again gobsmacked by it. Maybe there isn't a 'slattern' encounter there, but still, hairs are split.)

I hope this post doesn't offend anyone -- should I *-out those words? Or are we all guys in our 20s and 30s?

[waltero]

Man and I thought we had a killer DM when I was in high school....

Dark Mistress is more like Venger than Dungeonmaster.

[WereSteve]

And yet he goes on to say nothing about the prostitute encounter table in the back of the DMG.

Some of the early fluffy bits such as tables like this were rumored to have been donated by Bob Bledsaw (Judges Guild) or so some of the stories go. A good example of some odd encounter tables would be those found in _City State of the Invincible Overlord_.

[James Mishler]

Some of the early fluffy bits such as tables like this were rumored to have been donated by Bob Bledsaw (Judges Guild) or so some of the stories go. A good example of some odd encounter tables would be those found in _City State of the Invincible Overlord_.

Indeed, Steve, very true. I've never been able to get Bob to pinpoint the exact material that came from him, but rest assured, if it is a table in the DMG that was not seen before in a prior D&D booklet, odds are it came from Bob.

The way Bob tells it, he was sent the manuscript for the DMG, and felt it was quite light. So he sent Gary and crew a passel of charts and tables that he used in his game, and some stuff from various Judges Guild products, in order to fatten it up a bit.

One of these days I plan on going over the DMG and cross-comparing the tables with various tables and charts from early, pre-DMG JG products and Journals. Should be interesting to see how they compare...

[Harley Stroh]

The way Bob tells it, he was sent the manuscript for the DMG, and felt it was quite light. So he sent Gary and crew a passel of charts and tables that he used in his game, and some stuff from various Judges Guild products, in order to fatten it up a bit.

One of these days I plan on going over the DMG and cross-comparing the tables with various tables and charts from early, pre-DMG JG products and Journals. Should be interesting to see how they compare...

Wow. That'd be neat to read.

Are pre-DMG JG products for sale in PDF form anywhere?

//H

[James Mishler]

Well, the DMG released in August 1979, so just about anything JG worked on though ~May that year is fair game for consideration, I figure.

That would include all products up to JG #97, Journal X (June/July 1979) or thereabouts. That might even be the issue Bob first mentions that they sent him the preliminary ms, I'll have to check when I get home.

All the early Journals are just packed with charts, so there's plenty to look over.

As for PDFs, the Journals are not available anywhere that I know of; the Geilmans posted the first two on www.judgesguild.net, but those are the earliest newsletters, with no charts. It is when the Journal goes to newsprint with issue "N" that the charts start pouring in...

Adn then, too, I suppose charts that show up later in JG products could also be related to the ones use int he DMG, as Bob might have given Gary charts from his own campaign that had not yet been published.

As I've been working on my Warlands campaign, I haven't had the chance to look this stuff up... next time I need a break from writing, I'll start pulling some old Journals off the shelf (very carefully... they are getting pretty crumbly...)

[Harley Stroh]

I put my money where my chart was and bought some of the old journals off ebay. It will do me good to read them, regardless.

//H

[GnomeBoy]

I put my money where my chart was and bought some of the old journals off ebay. It will do me good to read them, regardless.

//H

Isn't the expression "grist for the mill"?

...Everything's research....

G.