DCC writers challenge regarding kobolds and rats

[Ogrepuppy]

Hi. I'm new around here, but I've been reading D&D related books for a few decades. I just started DMing recently when I realized I've got to defecate or get off the pot, to put it indelicately, when it comes to my favorite hobby. So I'm trying to find cool low-level adventures and noticed an obvious trend.

I'd like to challenge and encourage the DCC writers of low-level (i.e. level 1) adventures to stop with the kobolds and rats. We've seen enough, don't you think?

I know there's a cult following of kobold fans out there, but sheesh--every company has their "conquor the kobold nest adventure" to the point where it's cliché. Goodman Games, please break from the mold! Deviate from the path! Be rebels! Or maybe just get rid of the darn kobold and rats for a while...

I recently bought The Adventure Begins (DCC #29) and really enjoy it. Primarily because the writers found new and interesting ways of challenging 1st level parties, whether by modifying existing monsters or creating new, cool ones.

Out of 20 adventures for level 1 -3, there is one adventure with kobolds, and even that has a unique twist (and the kobolds can be substituted with other critters if you wanna go there).

So, whaddaya say? Could we have less kobolds (and maybe tone down the rats)? Can we craete new, interesting, challenging monsters (or heck, use the most terrifying monster of all--humankind!) instead of falling back on the old standby clichés?

Viva La Adventure Begins!

[Jeff LaSala]

Ogrepuppy,

Eventually monsters get reused, and even though writers could come up with new monsters (and do all the time) sometimes the benefit of a ready-made module is that a GM can essentially pick one up, give it a quick glance-through, and then run it without a lot of preparation. Especially the DCC line. Using monsters already familiar to the GM, but in different ways, I think helps this product.

Technically, I'm a culprit of what you're talking about with this adventure (coming out this month, I believe!) because it features....kobolds!

http://www.goodmangames.com/5030preview.php

But just look at the cover art. Those aren't your everyday kobolds. And yet they are. And aren't.

But this isn't just a plug! All the DCC authors have been pretty good about finding ways to keep old monsters fresh. Oldschool monsters goes with oldschool-style adventures.

Even so, I'm sure we can all chill on the kobolds a little bit. Either that, or the next big DCC will be all about kobold wererats!

[ynnen]

Hehe. I feel you, Ogrepuppy... But you really should let Adventure Begins count as 20 excellent examples of creative thinking for first level adventures, and not just one... After all, Joseph could have split 'em up and sold 20 separate 1st level adventures!

One of my favorite things about skimming through The Adventure Begins is seeing all the creative ways writers came up with to present challenging scenarios to first level parties.

One of my personal goals (which I think is clear in Chilled to the Bone) was to present a few incredibly powerful creatures that 1st level characters couldn't possibly contend with unaided -- but create situations and environments where the tools are available to them, if they're creative and careful.

[Ogrepuppy]

Actually, it was while leafing through Tsathzar Rho, some of the WotC adventures, and then seeing Transmuter's Last touch (DCC #31) that I began to see an ugly trend....

I'm just tired of the little punks* and almost always swap them out with humans or other critters.

Oh, I think The Adventure Begins is a great book. Heck, Tsathzar and Transmuter both look "different". I'm not so much griping about GG's books as much as I'm hoping (and pleading, and begging) to see a continued trend of "something different".

* yeah, that'd be kobolds!

[Ogrepuppy]

Either that, or the next big DCC will be all about kobold wererats!

*hurl*

Just kidding--I'd probably buy it anyway. I have an obsessive need to throw your company all my money for DCC books.....

[gargoyle]

When writing the Isle of Fury i realized immediately that I wanted a dragon ogre as an enemy for the first level characters (i'm a bit of a jerk that way)... monitor lizard riding kobold and Duergar clerics of Loki were an unfortunate by product.

But no rats i absolutely draw the line at rats...

If the characters are really angry about kobolds however have them use the powers of the Rune Stone of Fury and work through their feelings on the kobolds (this is an inside joke of sorts...)

Cheers,

Greg

[goodmangames]

Well, shoot. I guess I'll have to rework the 2007 schedule...

January: DCC #39: Kobold Castle
February: DCC #40: To Kobold Mountain
March: DCC #41: Tribes of the Kobold Chieftain
April: DCC #42: The Tomb of the Kobold Lord
May: DCC #43: Kobold Invasion

So much for that lineup!

Seriously, though, there are differing opinions on this subject. At times I have banned certain monsters from DCC manuscripts, on the thought that they're getting overused. But for every time I do something like that -- and for every comment like yours, about kobolds -- someone else tells me not to use new monsters, that they prefer the classic ones. I think the trick is to make sure that any monster is used creatively, in a way that provides an interesting challenge. With the right kind of encounter, even a creature so lowly as the kobold can become interesting again.

[Ogrepuppy]

Well, shoot. I guess I'll have to rework the 2007 schedule...

January: DCC #39: Kobold Castle
February: DCC #40: To Kobold Mountain
March: DCC #41: Tribes of the Kobold Chieftain
April: DCC #42: The Tomb of the Kobold Lord
May: DCC #43: Kobold Invasion

So much for that lineup!

Seriously, though, there are differing opinions on this subject. At times I have banned certain monsters from DCC manuscripts, on the thought that they're getting overused. But for every time I do something like that -- and for every comment like yours, about kobolds -- someone else tells me not to use new monsters, that they prefer the classic ones. I think the trick is to make sure that any monster is used creatively, in a way that provides an interesting challenge. With the right kind of encounter, even a creature so lowly as the kobold can become interesting again.

Admittedly, there are creative uses for the little creeps* in GG's adventures, and I'm not disputing that. I really liked Mearls' interpretation in Tsathzar Rho, and how he was able to blend Lovecraftian evil goodness into a "lowly" first level adventure.

Having said that, if you look at my post in the Tsathzar Rho thread I think I've come up with a great way to have my Cthulhu cake and eat it too.

I guess I just get tired of having to re-work every 1st level adventure so that the bad guys are more to my liking. That's why I really liked The Adventure Begins--less kobolds + 20 "starter" adventures = happy customer.

I'm also kinda impressed that the owner of the company will personally respond to the little guys like me...

* again, kobolds

[Gentlegamer]

I had similar thoughts on bugbears in a couple of the higher level DCCs.

I like what Stroh has done in Into the Wilds, giving the goblins a new tactic (dire bat mounts!), and included savage human canibals As long as something interesting is added to a standard antagonist, I think it works and stays fresh. I think I may change the goblins to something else for my campaign though, since my goblins are a bit different.

I'd like to see evil humans, elves, dwarves, gnomes, haflings, etc used as opponents, at all levels of adventure.

[Jengenritz]

Thanks for the kind words about The Adventure Begins, Ogrepuppy.

That was a fun module to work on, and I agree whole-heartedly with shaking up the standard bad guy roster. So many times I go through the SRD monster lists and I think, "Why is no one using this critter or that race?"

I think that a lot of the DCC authors are in the same boat, which is why we try to present interesting and new material for gaming groups.

[Ogrepuppy]

Thanks for the kind words about The Adventure Begins, Ogrepuppy.

Dude, I am pimpin' this book wherever I can, my man.

(Assuming you're both a dude and man.)

Here's a cool monster that can be low level yet is highly underused: Neogi. Smart, alien, and arrogant as crap. (And "scale-able.") What great villains.

Goodman writers, can you help a brother out and write me a neogi adventure? I don't want to have to go to Wolfgang Bauer and donate hundreds to get him to write it...

[Save Vs. Death Ray]

Well, unless Wolfgang ponies up the money to license neogi for an adventure, he's stuck with SRD monsters like everybody else...

...unless one of the DCC writers comes up with a monster that just happens to look like the result of a blind date between a drunken spider and a promiscous eel ...

[Ogrepuppy]

Oh, yeah...drat...I keep forgetting about that pesky liscense. My bad.

[Rick Maffei]

I'd like to see evil humans, elves, dwarves, gnomes, haflings, etc used as opponents, at all levels of adventure.

Gentlegamer and Ogrepuppy (man, I love both those names/handles) bring up an interesting point ... what monsters* would you folks (the readers) like to see in upcoming DCCs?

*SRD or other usable sources please!

[Ogrepuppy]

I've been yammering away in this thread, but I'll just say this & shut up:

Humans are the most evil, terrible, amazing and vile creatures when they want to be. Just remember high school. That's my vote.

[ragnar1965]

I do like the idea of more human baddies. Some other choices are: orcs, goblins, hobgoblins, etc...Don't forget about skelly's and zombies for low level undead. I will say that some of the funnest moments in my gaming have come at the hands of recurring bad guys. They can be introduced at any point...even low level adventures. Obviously, unless written into a campaign world campaign, it would be up to the DM to incorporate that later in the pc's lives or not. But using a bad guy to chase makes for easy linking of unlike adventures. Sometimes BEING chased can be even more fun.

[Gentlegamer]

I've always wanted to see a module where a main antagonist is a rival adventuring party.

[Jengenritz]

^ agreed...that sounds like fun