mech wpn vs siege wpn proficiency

Medieval fantasy mechs powered by steam, magic, or the labor of a thousand slaves.

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modus666
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mech wpn vs siege wpn proficiency

Post by modus666 » Thu Dec 06, 2007 8:59 am

do the various ranged weapons like steam cannons and ballista count as "mech weapons" for purposes of proficiency gain? for example, is a mech jockey automatically proficient with the ranged siege-stytle weapons? does a coglayer have the option of choosing a ranged siege-style weapon as one of his "mech weapon" proficiency gains?

walrusjester
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Post by walrusjester » Fri Dec 07, 2007 12:47 pm

If it's a weapon from the mech weapon lists in the main sourcebook, then yes, it is a "mech weapon" for all relevant special abilities, proficiencies, etc. A coglayer could therefore choose ballista or catapult or etc. as one of his proficiency gains.
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modus666
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soooo....

Post by modus666 » Fri Dec 07, 2007 4:29 pm

does this mean that mech jockeys are also automatically proficient with "siege" weapons in addition to those weapons listes as "mech" weapons?

also... can a coglayer simply choose "siege weapons" as one of his proficiency picks, since it's a single feat for all those weapons anyway?

mythfish
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Post by mythfish » Mon Dec 10, 2007 1:41 pm

Interesting. I'd never actually read the description of the Mech Weapon Proficiency feat before. It doesn't work at all like I assumed it did. The feat states that when you acquire it, you choose a mech, and can use all weapons on that mech proficiently whether they be classified as mech weapons or siege weapons.

So to answer your questions with that newfound knowledge: a coglayer cannot choose the siege weapons proficiency as his mech weapon proficiency as it covers weapons not attached to a mech. Since siege weapons can be used on mechs, and mechjockeys are proficient with all mech weapons, I'd say they're proficient with siege weapons as well.

However, I think it would be perfectly acceptable to house rule that coglayers could choose siege weapons instead of a mech weapon proficiency. I also think you'd be justified in saying that mechjockeys are only proficient with siege weapons that are actually attached to mechs (though the effects are the same, the actual aiming and firing mechanisms and such are probably different when the weapon is installed on a mech vs a standalone weapon).

The question I now have is: if I'm proficient with a mech that has a steam cannon, am I proficient with a steam cannon on any mech that has one, or am I just considered proficient with it on that model of mech? Is it really a "mech weapon proficiency" or is it more of a "systems of this particular mech proficiency"?

I'm inclined to believe it's the second, and it really should be changed to a simple "mech proficiency". You'd also get a -4 to pilot mech rolls for mechs you're not proficient in (and maybe repair checks if you wanted to be really cruel), and I'd add "mech proficiency" as a prerequisite for the Mechanized Combat Practice feat. It streamlines things a bit and avoids confusion and doesn't affect mechjockeys in the least since they get all this stuff for free anyway.
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mythfish
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Post by mythfish » Mon Dec 10, 2007 1:48 pm

And keep asking questions like this! It's a good indication of what things should be clarified in future editions if there are any.
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modus666
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Post by modus666 » Mon Dec 10, 2007 9:59 pm

mythfish wrote: So to answer your questions with that newfound knowledge: a coglayer cannot choose the siege weapons proficiency as his mech weapon proficiency as it covers weapons not attached to a mech. Since siege weapons can be used on mechs, and mechjockeys are proficient with all mech weapons, I'd say they're proficient with siege weapons as well.

However, I think it would be perfectly acceptable to house rule that coglayers could choose siege weapons instead of a mech weapon proficiency. I also think you'd be justified in saying that mechjockeys are only proficient with siege weapons that are actually attached to mechs (though the effects are the same, the actual aiming and firing mechanisms and such are probably different when the weapon is installed on a mech vs a standalone weapon).

The question I now have is: if I'm proficient with a mech that has a steam cannon, am I proficient with a steam cannon on any mech that has one, or am I just considered proficient with it on that model of mech? Is it really a "mech weapon proficiency" or is it more of a "systems of this particular mech proficiency"?

I'm inclined to believe it's the second, and it really should be changed to a simple "mech proficiency". You'd also get a -4 to pilot mech rolls for mechs you're not proficient in (and maybe repair checks if you wanted to be really cruel), and I'd add "mech proficiency" as a prerequisite for the Mechanized Combat Practice feat. It streamlines things a bit and avoids confusion and doesn't affect mechjockeys in the least since they get all this stuff for free anyway.
ok with that said, here's a thought. are most of the crew in a mech mech jockeys? or do you usually have a mech jockey as the pilot and a few well-trained 'others' as gunners and such? if so, does this mean that there are likely to be whole squads of guys trained to use mech 'a', but couldnt manage to fire the steam cannon in mech 'b' very well?

i think i need to re-read a bit....

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